What is the difference between English Shepherds and Scotch Collies?

Posted in: Current Articles
Tags: Australian Shepherd, border collie, english shepherd, scotch collie

From the beginning I always thought differentiating ourselves from the more well-know English Shepherd would be important. It is the primary reason I toyed with the idea of using the name “Scottish Shepherd”, because it shows more clearly that one is a dog of Scottish extraction while the other is English. More and more as the Old-Time Scotch Collie gains in notoriety I hear the question, “What is the difference between an Old-Time Scotch Collie and an English Shepherd” and so I think the time has come to tackle this issue.

It is interesting that many examples exist in which Scotch Collies and English Shepherds are mentioned in the same sources, indicating that they were recognized as different breeds, yet few, if any sources exist that contrast the two breeds. One of these sources was brought to my attention recently by my friend and well know English Shepherd breeder Vivian Flynt. It seems that the famous English Shepherd breeder and promoter, Tom Stodghill was breeding and selling Scotch Collies and English Shepherd concurrently in 1947. His ad from the April 1947 issue of UKC Bloodlines is below.

Tom Stodghill's ad for Scotch_Collies

Family Similarities

The issue has never clearly been answered in my mind what the difference between the Australian Shepherd and the English is, sure the AS can be merle and bob-tailed, they certainly are not all that way and ES can also be bob-tailed too. Logic dictates that no more than 50% of Aussies can be merle at any one time since merle x merle breedings are dangerous and a merle x non-merle breeding will result in only about 50% of the pups being merle. The same goes for natural bob-tails, although less dangerous to cross NBT x NBT the fact remains that a percentage of Australian Shepherds do not exhibit this dominant gene. Take away the merle and bob-tail and what differentiates them from English Shepherds, at least Border Collies have their working style to differentiate them. The point I am making here is that all working members of the collie family are quite similar, the Old-Time Scotch Collie does not need to be strikingly dissimilar to justify its existence as a separate breed any more than AS and ES need to be strikingly dissimilar.

The Collie Spectrum

As I described in the article The Collie Spectrum: Understanding the Scotch Landrace and as illustrated in the post Collieometer – Illustrating the Collie Spectrum the range of looks within the collie family is like a spectrum from the Roman Cattle Dog looks of Stodghill’s English Shepherds on the one side to the pointy-headed aristocrat known as the Rough Collie, everything else falls somewhere between these two extremes and each breed decides just where they draw the line within that spectrum to form their breed, furthermore every collie breed overlaps another somewhere along that spectrum. So it should be no surprise that the Old-Time Scotch Collie breed overlaps others, most notably Rough Collies, English Shepherds and Australian Shepherds.

Primary Differences

The following points stand out in my mind as the primary and most notable differences between the English Shepherd and the Old-Time Scotch Collie.

Ears – OTSC ears tend to be more erect or semi-erect, and have a higher set.
Ruff – OTSC often have a more pronounced ruff.
Coat – OTSC tend to have a longer and thicker coat than many ES.
Head – OTSC usually have a longer, more pointed muzzle.
Temperament – OTSC temperament leans more towards the biddable and less towards the bossy or aggressive.

The National English Shepherd Rescue has a pretty nice chart showing the differences between English Shepherds, Border Collies and Australian Shepherds. I have taken the liberty to modify their chart here and add Old-Time Scotch Collies for comparison. This should be helpful in showing similarities and differences in these related breeds.

Border Collie	English Shepherd
Australian Shepherd	Old-Time Scotch Collie

Defining Term	BC	ES	AS	OTSC
Appearance
Tail
Natural bob-tail	no	rare	yes	rare
Full tailed	yes	yes	rare	yes
Basic Body Type
Square & stocky, not much “tuck-up”	no	no	yes	no
Rectangular & stocky, medium “tuck-up”	yes	yes	yes	yes
Rectangular & lithe, “tuck-up” almost greyhound like	yes	yes	yes	yes
Healthy Weight
Over 60 pounds	no	yes	no	yes
Under 60 pounds	yes	yes	yes	yes
Head
Domed Skull, distinct “stop”, short muzzle	no	no	yes	no
Flat Skull, medium “stop”, wedge shape	no	yes	no	yes
Flat Skull, medium “stop”, sharp features	yes	no	no	yes
Some Dome, medium “stop”, heavier features	yes	no	no	no
Ears (when alert)
low, semi-prick, set forward	yes	no	yes	yes
low, semi-prick, set on side	yes	yes	no	yes
low, high, totally pricked, mixed	yes	no	no	yes
Eyes
slightly almond shape, more to side	no	no	yes	yes
round, more front of face	yes	yes	no	yes
round, more front, almost spooky and alert	yes	no	no	no
Color
Merle (red or blue)	yes	no	yes	yes
Black & Tan (no white)	no	yes	no	rare
Sable & White	rare	yes	no	yes
Black & White (no tan)	yes	yes	yes	yes
Tricolor (black, white, & tan)	yes	yes	yes	yes
Red & White (with or without tan)	yes	no	yes	rare
mostly White	yes	no	rare	rare
Coat
long and/or thick	yes	no	yes	yes
medium length, not too thick	yes	yes	yes	yes
Smooth	yes	no	no	no
Temperment
General Temperment
alert and intense	yes	no	no	no
alert and excitable	no	no	yes	no
alert yet relaxed	no	yes	no	no
Indoor/Outdoor Personality
active/intense	yes	no	no	no
alert/active	no	no	yes	no
mellow/active	no	yes	no	yes
Working Style
uses mostly eye contact with sheep, fluid, stalking type motion, crouch low, head lower than body	yes	no	no	no
a nip and run type style, sort of darting in and out	no	no	yes	no
standing approach, smooth in motion, assesses stock to be worked, changes style to fit situation	no	yes	no	yes
wide outrun	yes	no	no	no
“eye”	yes	no	no	no
vocal	no	no	yes	no
header	yes	yes	yes	yes
heeler	no	yes	yes	yes

2 Responses to What is the difference between English Shepherds and Scotch Collies?

Nancy Weaver says:

November 29, 2011 at 3:33 pm

I am in favor of the older type collie. I am not in favor of the sheep like look of the show collies today. They are bred for beauty and not workability.
Vivian Flynt says:

November 29, 2011 at 5:07 pm

What I find interesting — the smoking gun, if you will — is that Tom Stodghill differentiated between the two breeds eventho he was producing litters from both. And from all indications, he was NOT crossbreeding them. Back in the 1940s the breed the United Kennel Club called “Scotch Collies” was called “Rough Collies” by the American Kennel Club. I agree that Tom’s Scotch Collies most probably had heavier coats with pronounced bibs. Alas, only one Scotch Collie kennel ran a picture ad in UKC’s “Bloodlines” magazine during this time period & it showed a modern (improved) Collie with a wedge-shaped head.